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Chimeral Club - Chapter 11

Chimeral Club Chapter 11

Final chapter of volume 1. Will post complete volume with a few things I want to fix soon™

Manga: [Doki] Chimeral Club – Chapter 11 [36CDD16E].zip

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20 comments to Chimeral Club – Chapter 11

  • Rokudaime

    Page 10: “Me either, Empress.”, should probably be “Me neither, Empress.” instead.

      • Rokudaime

        Yes. “Me either” is less grammatically correct than “Me neither” in this case, and sounds off.

        http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/meeither.html

        Schoolbooks, certain dictionaries, and teachers of English will all tell you this. This kind of usage of “Me either” is actually quite new (by language standards), and is most common among young Americans (I’m very surprised to find a grown-up British person like yourself defending it), who admittedly use it quite a bit. There’s a reason “Me neither” is the one you hear in school. Of course, if we want to get really picky and technical, both forms are actually incomplete sentences, and in formal English you would be expected to say something like “Neither do I” instead, but most people don’t actually use this one.

        • If you want to get picky, let’s expand the sentence, since in manga you tend to simply it to a basic form.

          I can’t wait for it either, Empress.

          I can’t wait for it neither, Empress.

          You will notice the first statement is one of agreement. He is saying that he is also looking forward to what will happen in the future.

          In the second statement the “neither” has a negative connotation. But this isn’t a negative statement is it? He is after all agreeing with her. So where does this leave us?

          Well, as your link so handily points out you’d use “me neither” in reply to a negative statement. He even gives an example with “me either” that already has a negative in the statement and thus allowing the “me either”.

          In fact that entire link you posted is dealing with a negative statement. So I dunno why you linked that to this.

          So it’s not a question of “less grammatically correct” it’s that you are just wrong and apparently can’t understand the different usage of the two.

          • Rokudaime

            Well of course, if you expand it into “I can’t wait for it either, Empress.”, then that would be the correct usage, and if that was what he said, and you just shortened it, then that is fine (though it wasn’t the best choice, since the result ends up sounding off). I would have no way of knowing that though would I? You see, I figured his reply wasn’t shortened, and that it was the same as “Nor can I”, in reply to the Empress’s negative statement: “I cannot wait to see.”. In other words, “Me neither” in response to a negative statement (the Empress’s), like you said, and like that link deals with (which is your answer to why I linked to it). I can understand the difference just fine. It’s just that I didn’t know that the original sentence was “I can’t wait for it either, Empress.”, and that you shortened it. I had no way of knowing that. It could just as easily have been “Nor can I”.

          • I didn’t shorten it. It’s not the original line.

            It was an example. Just a longer sentence from the one used, so that you could actually understand why you are wrong.

            The results don’t sound off, just your lack of understanding, once again. I was actually talking about your comment with some friends at work on Friday. After they stopped laughing… Yeah.

            Also, paragraphs. Your walls of text are a annoying to say the least, sometimes I can’t be bothered to even try read it.

          • Rokudaime

            You yourself said that you’d use “me neither” in reply to a negative statement, like the link shows. The Empress is making a negative statement, not a positive one, since she says “cannot”. Ergo, it makes perfect sense to use “Me neither, Empress” (meaning “Nor can I”) in this case, no? :-/

          • Except that she’s saying it in a positive way.

            IE she’s excited to see what’s going to happen.

          • Rokudaime

            I thought that by “negative” statement (and the opposite “positive” ones), we were talking about what was actually said, not the way it was said. :-/

            I obviously understand that she is saying she’s excited to see what’s going to happen, but doesn’ the fact that she says she “cannot” wait to see what’s going to happen make the sentence a negative statement, even if it is positively charged?

            Using “Me either” as a reply to ANY sentence that says “I can’t [something something]” doesn’t sound right to me, and that’s not what we’re taught in school. It should be “Me neither”.

            I’ve never heard of there being a rule that says that there is an exception in cases where the negative statement carries a positive message (ie she’s excited to see what’s going to happen).

            A negative statement is a negative statement, and any statement that says “I can’t [whatever]” is a negative one as far as I’m concerned.

          • “Me neither”, would not be correct here.
            Much like any conversation, you must explore its entirety if we’re going to delve for proper grammar.

            “I can’t wait to see what happens next.”
            “I can’t wait to see either.”

            You have yet to provide any instance in which “neither” would be correct to use instead of “either”

            “Nor can I.”? Awkward as fuck.
            “I can’t neither.”? lolno

            And we explore our final, and most obvious confusion:
            “Me neither.” – “Neither can I.”?
            Were she making a negative response.
            Even if she is responding to a “negative” statement, she is responding to a statement and not a question, nor is she disagreeing with her.
            This is a positive response.

            Also: “Formal English”?
            This is a fucking manga.

          • Rokudaime

            I don’t really get it. So she would either have to disagree, or be responding to a question, in order for it to be a negative response, and for “Me neither” to be a good response? That doesn’t make sense to me.

            If that’s the case, then how do you explain that “Me neither” is used as a response in cases such as “I don’t like football” – “Me neither” and “I can’t play football very well” – “Me neither”? Those are both in agreement, and they aren’t responses to questions.

            “Nor can I” and “Neither can I” both sound less awkward and more correct to me than “Me either” as well. I can’t hear how “Nor can I” is so awkward, while “Me either” does sound awkward to my ears.

            Also, I wasn’t suggesting we should use formal English, I wouldn’t want that myself. Like I said, most people (me included) don’t actually use that kind of speech. I merely mentioned that technically, both “Me neither” and “Me either” are incomplete sentences. As and afterthought, you know?

          • And now we’re back at point B:

            “I don’t like football” – “Me neither”

            “I can’t play football very well” – “Me neither”

            They are both negative statements with negative responses.

            [Edit]

            And that’s all there is to it,
            I won’t even argue this point any further if you can’t understand simple English.

          • Rokudaime

            Well, I just don’t follow the analogy of your explanation is all.

            1. “Me neither” is a negative response used to respond to negative statements.

            Ok, check. That’s fine.

            2. Menzu’s response to the Empress, although a response to a negative statement, is a response to a statement, not a question, and he is not disagreeing with her either, hence his response is a positive one, and so should not use a negative response like “Me neither”.

            Ok, what I get from this is that Menzu would either have to disagree with the Empress’s statement, or he would need to be responding to a question of hers, in order for his response to be negative, and for “Me neither” to be a fitting reply. If I misunderstood that one, please tell me where I got it wrong.

            But if that is what you meant, then such a claim can easily be disproved, since there are plenty of examples of ” Me neither” being used as a negative response to a negative statement that is in agreement rather than disagreement, and that isn’t a response to a question. Like the two examples I gave you.

            It’s not that I’m not willing to believe you, it’s just that it’s hard to do that when your explanation doesn’t hold up, which it doesn’t. Either that, or you worded it poorly somewhere.

          • Rokudaime

            P.S:

            Also, just for the record, it’s very easy for native speakers like yourself and Ixlone to claim that something is “simple” English. But the difference between the use of “me neither” and “me either” is not so simple for non-native speakers. The amount of articles about it, and the amount of people asking about it in question-forums is a good indicator of this.

            Sometimes I think you guys are so spoiled from being used to English being the world language that you expect all aspects of it to be easy for everyone else who are not native speakers, forgetting that that is not really the case.

            I like to think of myself as fairly competent in English for a non-native speaker, and that is what I’ve been told by my native English speaking teachers, and other English people while I was studying in York in England (English is my field of study, although I’m not as picky about the way I write on the internet, naturally). Not everyone would be able to have this discussion I am having with you to such an extent, and I think that in itself is a testament to the fact that I don’t suck at the language.

            Anyway, I am probably wrong about this whole thing, but it would be nice if you could explain it to me in a way that actually holds up and makes sense, and that I can understand. But if not, fine, whatever. “Me either” still makes me cringe whenever I see or hear it by itself, and not as part of a sentence.

          • Then I’ll try a different explanation, as I can’t make them any simpler.

            “Me either” in its sole purpose is to positively respond to a negative statement or question, or should I say, in a negative environment, should it be used.

            It does not have to be, specifically, a statement.
            It does not have to be, specifically, a question.

            “either” in such a usage is a very looked upon subject, and many have their own set-in opinions.
            The same with starting a sentence with “Me”

            Your idea for this line :could: have been used, and people probably wouldn’t have noticed, but broken down and verified, it would have been wrong.

            Furthermore, adding “not” to a statement or question does not make it a negative one.
            Study Japanese and you will get a large numbers of examples for this.

            P.S. I am not a native English speaker, I am American. :p

          • Not confusing “cannot” with a negative statement would be a good place to start.

          • Rokudaime

            Ah, ok, I think I got it now, at last. 😛 Thanks odinigh. And sorry for the long discussion and all the trouble. Also, sorry, I assumed since you’re American that English (American English) was your first language. English is still the primary language in America, right? It hasn’t been overtaken by Spanish just yet. 😛 (Don’t take me seriously here, I’m just making a joke). Same with Australia, New Zealand, and Canada (well, ok, French is really big in Canada as well).

          • Rawr

            @Rokudaime

            You have nothing to be sorry for, if anything this place hasn’t had an indepth discussion like this in the comments area for a while lol. Absolutely nothing wrong with debating something.

  • Rawr

    Lol the first page was funny, great chapter.

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