(Pic not related)
Remember the transition from XviD to h264? Well, soon, 10-bit h264 will replace 8-bit h264.
Advantages
Without going into encoder speak, 10-bit h264 can achieve a same level of quality as 8-bit h264, but at a lower filesize.
Disadvantages
10-bit h264 is not widely supported yet.
More info on 10-bit h264 | More | More
This is simply a discussion your opinions of 10-bit h264.
Tuesday 19th July 2011 
10:28 PM 
Look, people. No reason to screw around with this stuff yet. Wait till devices, cards, etc support it. This is one of the big reasons groups release in L4.1, so people can actually *Play* the damn files wherever they please. It’s freedom.
This is equivalent to DRM right now. The files can only be used on a single ridiculous system (your friggen’ computer screen), and not on anything else like the current L4.1 MKV’s are finally able to do.
Of course if you provide both, WOW that would be COOL.
devices suporting is scondary (XVid exists for that) the most important is being possible to play them on the PC (already possible in a few ways [mpalyer2, beta CCCP, VLC])
my low end core 2 duo, that has suffered 2+ years of rape from my side, can play 720p 10bit without even a hint of a problem… well… with few exceptions, like 60fps cpu rape of amvs. And if you are bitching about 10bit, then you are not downloading 1080p anyway.
If you tone down the amount of rape nigga she’ll listen to you better, trust me on that homie. Y’know what I’m sayin’? Peace
I find it funny how so many of you whine about some shiny plastic toys and how they won’t be able to decode 10-bit H.264 properly when basically none of them can even render styled ASS subtitles properly. Anything with any kind of actual softsubbed typesetting generally falls totally flat with the terrible renderers of shiny plastic toys. ASS subtitles itself have already been “a form of DRM” (as the previous poster put it) in regards to hardware playback for a long time.
Didn’t you die?
Or was /a/ lying?
Rest in peace.
Christ, now we’ve even got the undead jumping in on the discussion.
>basically none of them can even render styled ASS subtitles properly
clearly all the people who need to watch their loli anime on the train already know japanese and thus have no need for subtitles
Then those people can grab the L4.1 raws.
I agree with Daiz, stop complaining if you can’t watch your japanese cartoon in you gameboy, that’s what the computer is for.
yo Daiz
wassup
You’d be surprised how many render them “well enough”. Most people don’t care too much about complex animations — most hardware ass renderers display the subs about as well as mpc-hc (albeit with prebuffered subpictures).
BUT I CHANGED MY MIND. If the files are smaller and niggers just watch them on their damn computer screens (and never use DXVA/CUDA/HW/CoreAVC/etc), why not just transcode that shit to watch on my gameboy? Hell, then it would be hardsubbed and work on EVEN MORE SHINY PLASTIC TOYS.
Which is fine.
thats why XviD exists for portable devices
Aw hell no, Xvid looks like ass nigga. Then that ain’t a discussion o’ ~25% bitrate savings — Xvid be multiples worse yo.
if you want quality don’t bitch about 10bit
if you want compatibility use XviD or re-encode to 8bit
Oh look, the guy who’s trying to kill anime. And apparently the guy who’s telling everyone not to watch anime on their smartpads.
The notorious Diaz exists. And it can speak!!
Oh Diaz, everything you say is pure gold.
I’m serious. ^^
I say hold off on it, or at least make dual releases with 8bit, until it’s more supported. It’s always the spoiled videophiles on their parent’s dime who are most outspoken about getting the highest quality at all costs, but I’d say with all the 720p downloads and huge streaming sites that the majority of people just want to be able to watch their shows with minimal fuss, and switching to a less supported format will certainly lose you that less whiney and vocal majority.
just waiting for a stable release of CCCP to come out works, ya know. And mplayer and vlc, but that will probably happen before CCCP decides this is out of beta testing already. Nobody will wait for CoreAvc anyway.
It’s always the spoiled videophiles on their parent’s dime who are most outspoken about getting the highest quality at all costs,
Couldn’t agree more with it.
I’ll believe 10 bit is good for future. But for now, as long as quality is good, I would to download and watch it 🙂
Use 10 bit now? Little risk, but, great size file reduced. Continued using 8 bit, not a problem 🙂
“Out from comfort zone, that’s when our lives begin” 🙂
I can understand those who would like to go for even “greater quality” instead of the “present quality” with lower filesize, but I already consider the “present quality” satisfactory.
Besides, in my opinion, if one is so perfectionist for quality, why bother with encodes in the first place? That’s what remuxes are for: just copy-paste the video and audio from the BD, add the ASS subtitle, put it in MKV and it’s done. Filesize will be big, but the video quality is 100% source.
The other thing, storage is rather cheap, but I already filled up my 3rd hard drive, and I’m just too embarrassed to buy the 4th. It’s against common sense, in some way… That’s why filesize is also important.
By all means , sacrifice quality , we wouldn’t want to traumatize this person any more ! Let’s not force him to confront the store clerk , let’s hold back progress.
You are riding on my last paragraph, which is irrelevant to the point.
>I’m just too embarrassed to buy the 4th.
Sorry, what?
I don’t care.
Nagi > Hina
WHY NOT JUST DO BOTH?! Same settings, just pop up the other one when the first finishes.
your nickname tells your skill and attitude ┐(￣ー￣)┌
Man, mah attitude beats anybody’s up. The otha day on the street, coupla niggas be chillen down by MC’s and I says “bitch what you got on 10-bit” and they said they’s gon pop a cap in my mutha fcukin’ ass if I don’t get out of their hood, yo.
And y’ain’t even usin’ it right. We niggas be usin’, and we usin’ it right. It ain’t attitude nig, it be aptitude. Aw hell no.
>Shana
YOUR nickname tells your skill and attitude.
Very cool, hopefully rather than just use it to reduce file size we can get even higher quality encodes at the same size. I can not wait to start picking up these files after XBMC adds support!
in lamens terms, does this mean i need to download any new software or upgrade any of my already out of date components? either or idk why people are crying…. they should appreciate you guys for the work you do and how curteous you are to the general public. unlike some sub stations, you guys dont require a share ratio and your subbing is some of the best. Its clear to see who is dedicaded opposed to others and that is one of they many reasons I keep coming here time and time again regardless of how long it takes for a new episode. thanks DOKI <3 pop
I don’t see people complaining. I see a lot of people just saying “wait it out”. I thought being prudent and patient were virtues not faults. Given a bit of time does allow them the hindsight of seeing all it’s benefits and drawbacks and allows people the time to upgrade their shit and catch up.
But the above linked references cite only a gain in PSNR, with principle example being PSNR-optimized Kyrion encoder. What about the SSIM? And there is no discussion of psyopts or the relative price in terms of compute cycles.
I appreciated an H.264 dissertation on variable framerate encoding put forth by AQS subs during the release of a Negima OVA, discussing the actual trade between bandwidth/compute/quality on a practical example: http://www.aquastar-anime.net/?page=articles/article20090108
Here are a few other sources on 10-bit H.264
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/avch-encoding/
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=155510
http://www.mediafire.com/?wy88vih0a0uc7f9
At a glance, 10-bit provides superior quality at med-high bitrate on low-noise and/or low-contrast video (good for most anime, perhaps not all). B-frames are less useful in this case. No info on psyopts that I could find. Compute efficiency is still very poor, right now my netbook can handle 720p 8-bit MKVs but even my dual-core laptop would struggle on 1080p 10-bit MKVs. More efficiencies need to be extracted.
My recommendation:
1) 1080p 10-bit MKV (Med-High end PC)
2) 720p 8-bit MKV (Netbook or better, fast phone)
3) 480p XVID AVI (That thing in your parents’ office)
To be honest, what I expect to see is people not saving up on filesize after a while.
Right now, the few 10-bit releases are clearly being made just to show how they have better quality at a lower filesize. I believe encoders will start sacrificing the filesize for less compression on the video, maybe even reaching sizes similar to the current 8-bit releases.
I’m ok with this.
Banding was starting to get really annoying for most series’ releases (hell, even that first Disappearance raw that surfaced had that all over the place).
If anyone has hardware that can’t keep up with the new media decoding, someone needs to upgrade. Even 400 USD desktops and the weakest of the laptops can now run 1080p flawlessly (especially if you give it GPU help).If the hardware were expensive I’d understand, but it’s not.
Go out and work for a couple of days, earn yourself a new PC and stop complaining. The world’s not stopping just so you can watch your videos on your Beta player, not spending a penny.
do et.
It’s too early to do this.
Until 10-bit h264 DXVA isn’t fully supported in frequently used players – releasing in this format is completely irreasonable.
Christ, you people sure have been pampered by your precious DXVA. If we had waited for “fully supported” DXVA playback of regular H.264 before switching over from XviD, we’d have only done so a year or so ago.
Similarly, it’ll probably take years before 10-bit H.264 gets GPU decoding support, since it’ll require completely new hardware decoding chips. And by that time H.265 is probably starting to make a presence already.
You know, nobody here cares what you say because you’re a complete jerk.
chill out, boy
well, i think what he said is true. especially this point
>Similarly, it’ll probably take years before 10-bit H.264 gets GPU decoding support, since it’ll require completely new hardware decoding chips. And by that time H.265 is probably starting to make a presence already.
i agree with that
Man cut the nigga some slack, he be believin’ in Christ, yo. His very first word. Nigga loves his computer, fo’ real. Prolly ain’t got no TV, netbook, tablet, gamin’ consoles, or gfx cards in that shit neither. He don undahstand the plight of teh common nigga, leave his ass alone peeps.
I gotcho back, D
Peace
I’d also say wait until all the more commonly players can support it flawlessly before switching over from 8-bit to 10-bit.
I mean, if you have the time you can release some 10-bit releases in addition to, but don’t phase out 8-bit quite yet…
Coalgirls just started a series in 720 in hi10p as an experiment.
And for some reasons this one works with ipad 2 and other players, in contradiction to the rickroll video and the other one. (tested with the opening)
FFS I was gone for TWO HOURS. What’s with the 350+ comments? Anyway, I fully support 10bit since I only watch stuff on my PC conencted to my HD LCD.
I am a linux user. And there is still no reliable support for this in linux mplayer.
(also no ordered chapters, and support for h264, ASS, and AAC sucks, its development froze like 5 years ago)
I vote for NO.
No It’s actually working without blocks in linux if u install daily built mplayer and then with SMPplayer as GUI from ubuntu software center. Maybe no ordered chapters, but at least the ass rendering is perfect, scraping works and it shows no blocks. And the laptop is a VAIO BZ11MN, it’s not that new.
I’m on linux as well. Just install mplayer2 to get 10bit support and ordered chapters (and I have no clue what h264/ASS/AAC problems you are referring to, since everything plays fine for me).
If you’re on Ubuntu (might work for other distros as well), just follow the install instructions here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=10996267&postcount=2
(I opted to build it myself, so that I can have both mplayer and mplayer2 installed, just in case something messes up and I need to fall back to mplayer)
I really have to thank you. Thank you! Mplayer2 solved 90% of my playback problems. Now I can even play 1080p and flac, what I could not before.
You may wanna check out mplayer2.
Here, have a link:
http://www.mplayer2.org/
Yes, it even supports ordered chapters.
BTW, most people commenting here forget something important: the lower file size is just a bonus. The real benefit is a hell of a lot less banding. Also, one more thing: decoding 10bit is about 40% slower. However, that is only if you are encoding at the same bit rate you would have encoded an 8bit file. Thus the 10bit encode will have a lower bit rate and will require less CPU to process. It ALOMOST balances out.
So why not do 10-bit now instead of 8-bit.. Then, have feedbacks when one file is out on 10-bit.. That’ll be easier to have opinions.. Personally, when I’ve read the part of smaller size, I was awed.. Yes, I’m all of lower filesize.. But also, tolerable quality or i should say, good quality is enough..
We’re not going to switch a show over to 10bit in the middle of a season. However, we will be releasing some 10bit BD encodes for a new show soon, as a trial.
I see, that’ll be good Sir Zdm.. Is there any specs needed on playing 10-bit file? Like requiring a stronger video card, etc etc..
Personally, I’m running linux on a Core2Quad with a crappy integrated Intel video chipset. 720p 10bit in mplayer2 seems to only take up 30% of one core (during OPs/EDs. During low-action parts of the main episode it’s usually around 25%), so I don’t think you’ll need to go out and purchase a new video card or whatnot to play 10bit.
I am for 10bit H264 encoding. These mobile devices are too picky with their standards and it will be easy enough to get playback right with a desktop computer. I’d much rather save disk space and download size, especially since my ISP has me on a cap.
tested some 10-bit…… it does look great. smaller file size + better quality = win of course. im all for it.
CoreAVC 3.0 will support 10bit. Smaller filesizes are always good! That would mean you could use higher settings (if possible) for better video quality. This would be really great for me 😉
Wake-up call for Holo. What the hell are you doing?
Fansubbers aren’t supposed to ask leechers for their (dumb) opinions, they’re supposed to know what’s best and just f*cking do it. Who the hell cares what they (try to) “think”.
This is about as retarded as thanking leechers for downloading.
Your opinion has been noted 😛
Thanks fo’ downloadin’, heffa. Peace out niggas
best comment so far.
Thank you man. I got yo back, too. Peace
good point, dude. good point
😉
im a complete retard when it comes to these things. my desktop can play 720p just fine right now, i guess it’s 8-bit… judging from what i just read. but hell, everybody on this topic can play 8-bit just fine.
my point is… if you’re an anime fan like me, you know that IT’S IN OUR BLOOD to keep pushing the envelope.
if 10-bit is better quality… hell, i’m all for it! but if it turns out i won’t be able to play it (which i highly doubt), people like me will have two choices.
1) i’ll have to look for 8-bit versions… whether its doki that supplies the 8-bit versions or john-doe-subs, that’s what i’ll be downloading.
2) get a machine that can play 10-bit.
either way, i’ll still be an anime fan. and love it.