(Pic not related)
Remember the transition from XviD to h264? Well, soon, 10-bit h264 will replace 8-bit h264.
Advantages
Without going into encoder speak, 10-bit h264 can achieve a same level of quality as 8-bit h264, but at a lower filesize.
Disadvantages
10-bit h264 is not widely supported yet.
More info on 10-bit h264 | More | More
This is simply a discussion your opinions of 10-bit h264.
Tuesday 19th July 2011 
10:28 PM 
Well, I just tried playing [m.3.3.w]_Dantalian_no_Shoka_-_01_[h264_720p][Hi10P]_[2C0EC71E].mkv and while there was no lag or playback speed issues, the video quality was terrible. Whatever the reason, it ain’t working correctly with my player.
Voting very strongly against 10bit until it’s better supported.
Simple solution: Download the 8bit 720p version and you will be fine. Nobody will put alone a 10bit versions, for the moment, until the correct support was be ready, some fansubs will only put a hibrid option (you can download 8bit, or 10bit). And, if you wanna play 10bit now, try with the VLC Beta, or Mplayer2 newest version, or instal the CCCP last beta pack.
http://www.cccp-project.net/beta/
For the moment I will wait for a better support, but I really masive aprove the use of 10bit.
There’s bound to be one group that will.
*looks in the direction of gg*
We’re up to one; Coalgirls.
From what I saw on their page, they’re completely transitioning over to 10bit come Sept.
yeah, but
..coalgirls..
Just release a test file of an episode that you recently released and we can all try it out.
better quality and lower filesize? bring it on! compatibility isn’t an issue for me (i use software decoding so i’m not at the mercy of hardware decoding devices and their firmwares, limitations, etc) not to mention computers are so cheap nowadays that a <$500 desktop can playback ANYTHING
I don’t really care about filesize as long as the quality is good…more importantly I want that picture in wallpaper size plz
http://danbooru.donmai.us/data/f5c8af6f2814a0c5bee93cbba971ad30.png
DOOO EETTT! Sounds good, I may finally leech 1080p if this goes through.
Really… I don’t have the budget, nor the space, nor the appetite to dedicate a whole computer in both my living room and bedroom to watch anime. A $200 media player is as much as I’d spend because the rest of my money pays for HDDs and bandwith.
When I lie down on my couch or my bed, I don’t want to boot up a computer and then fuss with the OS/drivers/whatnot. I just want to turn it on and find the stuff I want to watch.
Call me cheap, call me old fashioned, whatever. I want it to work and I want it to be easy, too.
Encodes using Hi10P will not allow this __at_ _this_ _point__.
People will complain if 10-bit H.264 is widely adopted by encoders. However, if it’s not adopted, adding support for it will remain a low priority to most media player/codec developers. Encouraging its adoption might bring with it faster player support.
I’m personally in favor of using 10-bit H.264. My media player of choice doesn’t support it yet (MPC-HC beta), but so what? I know how to use Google. I installed MPlayer2 a little while ago, and it plays the sample Hi10p encode beautifully. I don’t really care about conserving download bandwidth, but 100 MB off of every episode in a series could save a couple of GBs off of the series as a whole when archiving, and that’s a bargain.
TL;DR-I’m fully in favor of 10-bit H.264. Heck, if encoders always listened to the masses and shied away from not-well-supported formats, we’d still be using XviD in AVI after all… >_>
I’d like to see groups start working with it as soon as they can. People will bitch and moan to keep things the way they are so they don’t have to do anything that takes effort. The quality and filesize are more than reason enough to get going on this now; the longer the wait, the more people will just push it off and promise to embrace the next coming technology.
It’s just a matter of time.
it shouldn’t be a big deal: use this new 10-bit and tell us what player/codec to use or download.
every transition comes with little problems at the beginning, this is just normal.
Please just make your first 10bit releases in 8bit too so we old PC owners on a budget can test how well it works on our relics.
I approve this, as lower filesize at the same quality is ALWAYS a plus.
But groups should first release in both formats.
encode speed is also faster, go right ahead.
The hi10p standard is here.
There is no more debate to be had about it , it exists , it’s implemented , it’s a full part of the h.264 standard.
Consider this thread a “Get your shit together” thread , and use the wake up effect to update your codecs . A lot of people have been kind enough to include links for every player available and then some.
This is not going to go away LOL. There is no opinion to be had.
PS :
From what I’ve read and as some people have pointed out ,
Choose to use the extra overall gain for quality improvement please , don’t lower the file size.
If a equal sized file can be made for 10 and 8 bit , with the 10 bit having a slightly better quality , I would prefer that to having the same quality as the 8 bit but at a lower size.
I agree.
Go for extra quality.
I understand the extra bits per sample remove the need for internal dithering that would create banding if not dona , and dithering used a lot of bandwidth . But being able to keep more of the single pixel detail in complex scenes is a lot more important to me than making files a tad bit smaller.
When they have a size for their 8 bit CFR encode , they can generate an average bitrate by dividing the final size by the time the anime lasts. Then use that average bitrate to create a multi pass encode where every bit is used to it’s full potential. That would be the best possible scenario. Multi pass encoding , though a lot more efficient than CFR , does take a lot more time. I would gladly wait 3 hours after the 8 bit release to get a near perfect 10 bit one.
Target bitrate is the past, target quality is the future.
Target quality = quick fix.
I personally believe that h264 encodes nowadays are very transparent to the source, of course the word “very” varies from person to person, but to me, the level of trueness to the source is already satisfactory. So the only benefit I see here is lowering the filesize.
Of course, this is only my opinion.
Even if unsure , I would never want to risk the loss of pixel level details for the benefit of bandless area’s or artefactless black. Trading in something to get something else is not the way to go imo.
I would not risk it.
File sizes that are not orders of magnitude smaller or larger don’t really matter either .. 20% is not worth the risk of losing even the smallest bit of detail.
The price per gig since doki started has dropped to nearly 1/3 of what it was since doki started , and it will keep dropping at the same rate. File sizes don’t go up . I had this discussion with someone in 1997 where mp3 was concerned . We were making an automated radio station of a hospital , he was worried that the purchace of more cd’s for the collection over the months that followed would flood his harddisk. Today in 2011 , a 3 TB hd can hold 65000 hours of music. That’s 7 and a half years of playing back to back. Back then harddisks barely crossed the gigabyte boundry.
Bottom line , don’t sweat sizes.
With the WD Caviaar Green 3TB
We’re at 5.9 ¢ per gig. That’s about 2.2¢ to store a Doki episode of average size. I really hope everyone here can afford that.
Two point two cent.
for those wanting samples here are some
8bit
http://www.cccp-project.net/beta/test_files/H.264-444-8bit-sample.mkv
10bit
http://www.cccp-project.net/beta/test_files/H.264-444-10bit-sample.mkv
actually nvm these are unequal comparisons :\
For those testing .. Download the file , don’t play it in your browser… People earlier in the thread were trying that , and were surprised it didn’t display correctly
^_^;
just how much disk space will be saved if we used 10-bit instead of 8-bit?
if it’s gonna save that much space, then let’s all switch to it. just recommend the most stable players that can play the said file type.
I really don’t want to nickel and dime on extra space. I’d rather have extra quality tbh.
Taking [m.3.3.w] Dantalian no Shoka – 01 [720p] as an example:
8-bit 372MB (crf 17.8)
10-bit 286MB (crf 19.2)
Now I’m curious how high the CFR can be cranked up to to achieve a 372 MB file.
I meant crf of course.
i don’t care that the file-size is a bit big…
the bigger the better i say
bigger isn’t always better… it’s what you do with the size that counts.
it’s always about price & performance 😉
If you enjoy bloated releases, go there:
http://coalgirls.wakku.to/
http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/toshiba-toshiba-satellite-15-6-amd-e-series-dual-core-e350-laptop-c650d-00l-black-c650d-00l/10171888.aspx?path=728a18ebd6fd85af1c01ab5f8d44caaden02
This is my friend’s laptop spec. Note that the laptop is exceptionally simple and the specifications just meet the bottomline of regular notebooks.
The 10bit 720p episode of Dantalian by m.3.3.w released yesterday plays without any problem in this laptop.
The test was done using latest CCCP Beta and since VLC sux, I used zoomplayer 7 standerd version. There was no lag in the /k-times. The CPU was opearting in the same range of that of a regular 8bit 720p release.
However, I would want to test 10bit release with /k-effects. Since some of the series I am following from doki and few other groups have /k-effects in their OP/ED/logo etc.
You may want to note that that laptop is sporting the highest clock-speed of AMD’s brand new e-series APUs designed specifically for HD media playback in netbook/sub-notebooks. I have a 12″ Lenovo X120e packing it aswell and find it can easily handle 1080p releases with a bit of CCCP/MPC-HC + CoreAVC black magic.
Case in point: This is not comparable to any older laptop of similar spec, but it IS a bloody good piece of kit for the price.
Also on topic: In setting my WDTV HD media player to run through an HDMI cable, it gives me the option of 8-bit or 10-bit, is this the same thing?
*Turns out it’s colour depth, so that’s a no.
Arses. :/
That betaboy guy over at corecodec really is a douche.
Apparently , during the update of foe forum some time back , the questions someone had about hi10p suddenly disapeared !
HA
http://forums.corecodec.com/threads/2388-Coreavc-2.5
I think I’ll make an account and press the little dipshit’s nose into the fact coreavc needs to get updated . We need a patch now , not after the summer.
He advocates at being “the best” he better deliver.
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by BetaBoy 2/4/2011 Later (5:30AM PST?)
We’re looking into the YT problem
About 10bit… we will support it when x264 adds it.[/QUOTE]
The h.264 standard added it on the 4th of july 2010.
More 10 bit material here:
Steins;Gate NOCP 10 bit encode.
http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=torrentinfo&tid=229980
First off I want to know if it means I’ll have to go out and buy a new media player-currently using a WDTV Live-and if yes than it’s a big no for very selfish and obvious reasons. :p
probably you will have to
Isn’t it about time Holo started re-encoding the Doki back catalogue into 10-bit … it’s not as if he’s doing much this season. 🙂
Just downloaded [m.3.3.w]_Dantalian_no_Shoka_-_01_[h264_720p][Hi10P]_[2C0EC71E].mkv and it works perfectly fine with my MPC using cccp and CoreAVC pro… Good quality and nothing really to complain about so yea I support the whole 10 bit h.264 🙂
What is there to discuss? Switch to the new format when it’s fully supported. Just my 2 cents.
The only thing that concerns me with this whole 10-bit movement. Is that currently I use Handbrake which encodes in HD (h264) and DIVX converter along with having Sony Vegas. So now if I have an anime or file that is in this Hi10p, like how hard is that going to be to convert to some other format? Unfortunately my pc does not have the ooomph to use RipBot well. So like if I have something that is a Hi10p mkv and want to make it a mp4, do I loose quality then? I support it, I’m just wondering what you have to use to encode in this new format or vice versa.