(Pic not related)
Remember the transition from XviD to h264? Well, soon, 10-bit h264 will replace 8-bit h264.
Advantages
Without going into encoder speak, 10-bit h264 can achieve a same level of quality as 8-bit h264, but at a lower filesize.
Disadvantages
10-bit h264 is not widely supported yet.
More info on 10-bit h264 | More | More
This is simply a discussion your opinions of 10-bit h264.
Tuesday 19th July 2011 
10:28 PM 
Go for it. Filesize is not an issue only for those who don’t have download limits where your connection shuts down after exceeding 150 GB per month ;(
I’m all for it!
go for it if you want, i don’t care about the size and go for quality but if the quality is equal or better then why not?
I for one totally support switching to 10bit, the earlier the better even.
Filesizes may not matter much for many people. but there are really alot of people who can barely get 4MBit connections, many people can’t even get that much. So having about half the filesize for the same quality is pretty much a win-win situation.
I think you should at least start doing some of the series in both 10bit and 8bit. That should be mostly for experimenting and some feedback. And since many people can try 10bit this way, you can have some rough guess at how meaningful it is to have 10bit encodes, or if it is needed to wait abit more for more stable releaes for cccp and such.
In short, you won’t know if its succssesful or not without trying, so imo – just go for it.
We have to consider that make 2 shows at the same time with both 8-bit and 10-bit would take time :p
indeed
I’m with the ’embrace the future’ crowd. GO FOR IT.
Seriously guys, ALL Core 2 Duo and Phenom II based computers and above should be able to handle 1080p WITHOUT hardware acceleration. Even then, the cpus aren’t even fully loaded.
lolz my netbook can play 1080p video smoothly…
Specs or I call bullshit. My neighbor’s netbook doesn’t handle 720p, much less 1080p. A Core Duo 2Ghz barely handles 1080p (looks over at 2006-era HTPC), and no netbook is anywhere near that performance.
Also, if you’re referring to GPU acceleration on newer models, that’s *exactly* the type of thing that esoteric encoding options will *break*.
Acer Aspire One AO521-3530, google it for specs. It may be better than regular netbooks cuz its amd cpu and not shity intel atom + better gpu but its not even close to dual core PC and it still plays 1080p fine(not stream but from HDD). I can even make a video if you don’t believe me…
And another thing I forgot to say, not everyone is lucky enough to have super fast internet speed (I’m on 1 Mbps).
I’m in a similar situation, My connection is 1.5Mb so my actual down maxes out at ~200Kbit. It takes 30-45 min to DL most of the 720p releases.
But I don’t mind the wait since I have re-encode most of them anyway and thats another 5-6hrs, I’ll just be doing the same with 10-bit.
Might as well.
tbh, I don’t know why groups still release xvid releases. Seems so pointless.
I like the Xvid releases as they are highly PS3 compatible. 🙂
guess many people are either:
1) using PCs from early 2000
2) don’t mind watching anime in SD (i know many who stream..)
Yeah, I have already watched an example of 10-bit h264 and I find it much cleaner & clearer.
I can play 10-bit on my computer with the latest CCCP beta build which supports 10-bit h264 so there’s no problem for me and I have 7 TB HDD and gonna buy more lol…
But regardless of what, I think maybe it’s best to wait a bit longer for everything to be more stable such as codec’s.
Holo can you make a test version, one with the regular 8-bit and one with the new 10-bit h264 on a full episode so people can compare these two? A test version with the same conditions.
Summarized: “Hi, works for me on bleeding-edge beta build, so screw everyone else.”
No .. Just you…
only screwing urself if you don’t update your codecs… it’s free.
will CCCP still be able to play them? if so and the quality is the same then sure why not but tbh i don’t mind, i’ll download your releases either way 😉
Yeah I think that if it increases needed system specs it shouldn’t be integrated and defiantly not until it’s more supported. HD Space is cheap (even though my crap non upgradable PC can’t support more than it’s 320gb) I recently got and external 1tb for so little cost to make sure I have back-ups of pictures and such. Also for more space so I don’t have to delete my stock footage and have more choice when I edit videos together.
The 300 or so mb each episodes is is nothing. Even when I used to only have my tiny 320gb hard drive.
And at that we only have a 5mb/s connection (the best we can get on this island) and that’s spread between six computers constantly connected to the internet and people watching netflix on the PS3 and people online on iTouchs and a web tablet.
I still can get an episode in 30min-1h which is a fine download time for me. Sometimes even 20mins if the seeders are nice and a few people aren’t on the internet.
i say go for it! smaller file sizes and better quality ftw!
everyone talks about how cheap hard drives are, but forgets that alot of people use laptops as their primary computer (for which the largest hard drive is 1TB), and pretty much any laptop that’s been made since ’09 (such as mine) can handle the marginal cpu increase that’s needed to decode it.
It’ll be short opinion – wait for wider support and then switch. Switching now it’s pointless.
*is
And doing 10-bit if the source is only 8-bit is just plain stupid.
If it cuts down the filesize without dropping the quality, how is it pointless?
Go for it! its basicly win-win, only thing is is we may have to change a codec but meh.
don’t use it
That depends on what “is not widely supported yet” means.
If that means “your media player of choice probably won’t work anymore because only [insert one player here] runs it with only a specific codec”, then no.
If it means “it just takes more CPU to run”, then yes, go for it, that’s not a problem.
It sounds good to save bandwidth! but I wonder just how resource hungry it is?!
I’ve read the 3 documents you linked and I find it really interesting!
A test would be appreciated ^^
How much lower are the file sizes? If its truly significant then I’m all for this it will be way easier on my bandwidth cap.
Do the majority of people that cry about file sizes still care about hard drive space? This has never been the issue for me I just deleted stuff or put it on dvd when HD space was expensive.
Anyway I would suggest you post a sample episode of something in 10bit and ask people how it runs on their setup. Also advise them to try the latest cccp if their setup doesn’t work.
>This is simply a discussion your opinions of 10-bit h264.
have u ask Hinagiku? if Hina says yes, i’ll go with her 😛
will it work on my android tablet/phone ? 🙁
i mean who watches anime on PC’s anyway ??
You mean “Who watches anime on a tablet/phone anyway?”
I can’t imagined watching 720/1080p anime with subs on 7″ or 4″ screen. That’s just crazy.
Anyway, it’s pointless having a 10-bit encode, even if the CPU/GPU capable of decoding the content, but then the screen is only capable of projecting 8-bit image.
When LCD screen all have 10-bit image (the only thing I know capable of doing this have IPS panel, which is could do some serious damage to your bank acc) and the price has drop down, and most codec supports it, and the source is also 10-bit, then we can have 10-bit encode gladly.
But for the sake of dropping down the filesize (even with the same quality), DO this when major codec pack and player supports it.
no Sir. u trolled
Wait until it’s better supported, no point distributing what half the people downloading can’t work out how to play. (yes the general public are, by default, noobs until proven otherwise)
Putting aside the issue of file size for a moment, will any of us actually see much improvement from 10-bit h264? True 10-bit colour depth is only used in high-end graphics monitors, and many of those that claim to display 1 billion colours are still 8-bit with frame rate control (FRC).
I’m pretty sure that the majority of us will have 6-bit+FRC panels, allowing 16 million colours to be simulated, with only a few using true 8-bit and fewer still with 10-bit.
Output some test files so people can see the results using their own machines.
And don’t tell us which is which, so it’s at least single-blind. If you say “this is the 10-bit one”, everyone is going to say “oh yeah, that looks so much better!”, even if it’s the same file.
lol. but they will find out with the file size no?
Or you can just use MediaInfo to find out.
As long as it’ll play in MPC-HC using CCCP on my PC without lag like the current encodes then I’m fine with the switch.
If the source isn’t 10-bit,I think encoding in 10-bit may not improve the quality.
But the file size will reduce. That is guaranteed.
I had a very long, profanity-filled post, but I thought better of it.
Look, I lived through three (4?) flavors of Divx. I lived through “AVI could mean *anything*”. I lived through OGM files that were completely unseekable. I’ve dealt with FLAC audio that even FOSS decoders choke on 50% of the time. I’ve dealt with god-awful WMV9.
We finally reached a point where everyone is doing more-or-less the same thing – MKV/H264/AAC. Maybe a few different tweaks to the encoding settings, but by and large, everything plays everywhere. It plays on PC’s with minimal fuss (getting them to understand the MKV container format is about the only “third party” extra needed). It pays on media centers without fuss. And with minor container conversion, they can generally be coaxed onto our various portable media devices, whether they’re iOS, Android, or what-have-you. And quality? From the 1080p’s I’ve seen, it’s certainly not lacking.
So really – are we going to start the cycle *again*? Who exactly is crying out for more disk space, in these days of $120 3TB hard drives? Bandwidth? I have a *really* crappy cable connection, and I can still download my weekly episodes easily. I just don’t see any tangible benefit, and I’ve been through *so* much pain through the years with fansubs that I just don’t want to go there again. I’d seriously stop watching anime again (as I did for several years), just to avoid that hassle.
So there, my $0.02, minus the profanity. 🙂
Dude, a mere codec pack update and we would be ready to go, future is unstoppable so why bother thinking about the past, I only see future, future, and nothing else but future!… ^_^
I was on the just go straight to 10bit encodes boat, until you reminded me of those days.
10bit has to be significantly better quality/smaller file size to justify the potential nightmare that is codec compatibility. While I play almost everything with mpc-hc and ffdshow + real time avisynth frame doubling nowadays, I still like being able to use dxva decoding, vlc, mplayer, and the old equivalents of those on a mac.
I don’t like the idea of more cpu load, but as long as the cpu load increase is under ~12gigaflops, framedoubling on my 3 year old desktop is still doable at 720p, though 1080p is really pushing it.
10bit is naturally the way of the future, but adopting it too early will not be beneficial.